Bradley Effect?

I've tried to write a quick post about this three times now and it keeps getting deleted (by me). So, without all the hubbub, the Bradley Effect:

Bradley effect derives its name from a 1982 campaign involving Tom Bradley, the long-time mayor of Los Angeles, California. Bradley, who was black, ran as the Democratic party's candidate for Governor of California against Republican candidate George Deukmejian, who was white. The polls leading into the day of the election consistently showed Bradley with a lead.[4] However, Bradley narrowly lost the race. Post-election research indicated that a smaller percentage of white voters actually voted for Bradley than that which had said they planned to vote for him, and that voters who had been classified as "undecided" had gone to Deukmejian in statistically anomalous numbers.[2]

...

Similar voter behavior was noted in the 1989 race for Governor of Virginia between black Democratic candidate L. Douglas Wilder (right) and white Republican candidate Marshall Coleman. In that race, Wilder prevailed, but by less than half of one percent, despite pre-election poll numbers that showed an average lead for him of nearly nine percent.

The question being bandied about today is whether or not we've just witnessed the Bradley Effect in New Hampshire. Why? Because, this is how they choose their candidate in Iowa.

This is how they choose their candidate in New Hampshire.




Two things.
1. I've made it clear that I dislike Barack Obama.
2. This isn't why, and something like this might make me try to help him if he wins the nomination (which I hope he doesn't).

Comments

What are your thoughts?

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I just finished posting about this but the short answer is:

If you look at the exits, white males still broke for Barack Obama, the biggest shift from the Pre-election polls and the exits was from women. I argue in more detail in the post, but I think that pretty well refutes this as being the major factor.

No fair

No fair citing cartoon strips that don't appear in my paper.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I don't think Bradley effect was in play here

I think there are a lot of us who want the "man in the arena" - or the woman in the arena that Stan wrote about so beautifully yesterday. Both Edwards and Clinton have weathered the attacks from the media and the right in a presidential campaign in the past. Both have been tested in their private and political lives and have shown the strength to fight through their trials. I see in Obama a man who has affected a folksy preacher voice to accompany his exciting oratory, but I don't see a man who has been tested in life. I think there are a lot more people out there like me and when we step in the booth we want a candidate of action, not words.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Bit my tongue yesterday, but...

I'm honestly trying to keep the peace around here by keeping my anti-Edwards sentiments as hidden as possible, but dammit, how the hell is Edwards still the "man in the arena" when he abandoned his post and let Richard Burr have it, while chasing this dumb-ass quixotic presidential quest after only SIX DAMN YEARS of public service, while Obama has been in community organizing, state legislatures, and the Senate for far longer? Hell, Edwards didn't even freakin' VOTE until he was in his 40s -- and he's the "man in the arena?!?!?"

Okay, I'll pipe down. It's just starting to boil over.

No piping down necessary

I don't share your point-of-view about the need to pay dues, but I do still have a sour taste about Edwards' Senate seat. That said, it looks to me like he's truly been born again. It maybe calculated, but I don't think so.

All of which explains why I'm supporting him. What he's saying about corporate influence in politics is the issue of our times, in my opinion. No other candidate for president, and almost none for any other elected office (BJ Lawson excepted) get it.

It's a degree of respect, I guess

I have enormous respect for what Blue South and many others around here are doing in active support of the Edwards campaign. It's a hell of a lot more than I'm doing for any campaign (although I can say have my hands full with local work at the moment). At a time when, frankly, Edwards isn't getting a lot of good news, I don't enjoy being the one to deliver more gut punches.

I found Edwards' term as Senator here extremely frustrating, with him voting the wrong way on a lot of bills, large and small. I agree that his rhetoric has been inspiring, but the claims that he's somehow less "all talk" than Obama, or that he's been in the middle of it all along, just run so counter to my perception of reality that it starts to burn me.

I've said before that I think Edwards needs to find a role to contribute in public life -- he has some strong gifts that would serve him well. And I can completely understand wanting to stay in through Nevada and South Carolina, where his lineage and his union support give him a decent shot at a miracle. But if he doesn't win at least one of those outright, and still doesn't drop out of the race, I'm going to start getting very angry at him again.

I don't have any anti-edwards sentiments, but...

...I'm still going to say something that might piss off Edwards fans on here.

Edwards seems to think that both him and Obama are "agents of change". He said that he thinks they have just a difference of opinion on how to achieve that change.
Well then I think that if Edwards really wants a candidate for change in the White House he should start thinking soon about dropping out of the race and endorsing Obama. I'm pretty sure most of his supporters would vote for Obama instead of Hillary.

Since his own campaign doesn't really seem to be picking up steam this seems to me the only way that Edwards can bring about change. I'm pretty sure it would put Obama over the top and defeat the "establishment" candidate Hillary.

I'm sure this is not what some of you want to hear, but I was doing a lot of thinking on my way home last night and this is what came out. sorry :-)

Left on 49

The problem is that Obama has never stood up when the heat....

was on him.

You can scoff at all those "present" votes in the Illinois legisature (seven times on abortion, at least twice on gun control). You can scoff at our questioning why he was silent about the war for 11 months after being elected, though his whole reason for being in the race is his "ardent" anti-war sentiment; and, that his first bill concerning Iraq came only AFTER he opened his Presidential Exploratory Committee. You can scoff at our questioning his voting for every funding bill that has been submitted since he entered the Senate, even though he ran on voting against the $87 Billion funding bill. You can scoff at our questioning why he would vote against the Kerry amendment, which would have started organized redeployment. But, it doesn't change the fact that Barack Obama seems like a wimp, who won't stand up for anything unless it is politically convenient.

What change will he stand up for when the going gets tough and he can't please everyone?

No, I don't want Barack Obama as my President. No thank you.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

p.s.

Obviously, I DO have anti-Barack Obama sentiments. I don't know if I've ever disliked a Democrat as much as I do Barack Obama (no, Joe Lieberman is not a Democrat).

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

What did it for you man?

bad medicin?
something in your cornflakes?
Seems to me like you have lost all reason when it comes to debating Obama...seriously.

Left on 49

I don't really take medicine...

and I don't eat cornflakes.

This is the reason I've largely quit blogging at Daily Kos, I can't stand your candidate and I can't stand these stupid threads that y'all start. As if it freakin' matters.

I'm thinking it is time to get back to my focus on the Lt. Governor's race (where I've narrowed myself to two candidates). And, I haven't heard much about the Senate race in my area to replace our retiring state senator.

Plus, there is the whole universal health care issue, which will have to be resolved at the state-level it looks like.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

just chill

I'm just trying to understand your obvious hatred and disdain for what i think is the one progressive presidential candidate that seems to have any chance of winning this thing.
I don't start any "stupid threats" and I'm on dailykos maybe once every 2 months, so you must not be talking about me.
It's just real interesting to me to find an obviously progressive guy that seems more likely to vote for Mike Huckabee before he would ever vote for Obama.
I just can't explain your reasoning and I'm trying to understand it before my brain explodes.

The only thing I get is that you seem to think that obama is "fake" somehow. Interestingly enough that's one of the reasons why I'm not a big Edwards fan, because judging by his past and by how he came across to me the one time i saw him speak up close and personal at an event, Edwards looks to me as if he's acting. That's a very subjective feeling of course.
It seems to me that you have a lot of those towards Obama.
But I'll gladly vote for Edwards or even, much less enthousiastically, for Hillary before you see me vote for a republican.
I'm trying to understand why you wouldn't.
Left on 49

I'll never vote for a Republican. Ever.

This isn't about that. It's about someone who stirs me to action. Obama doesn't do that. All I've said is that I won't knock on doors for him (unless Republicans use racist attacks against him, then I'll do it for America, not for Obama). However, of course I'll vote for him.

p.s. I can't imagine where you got the idea I would vote for a Republican since I've never suggested such a thing anywhere. As for Huckabee, I've been saying for about six months that he is the Republican I am most afraid of going up against. He's likable, unlike the rest of their crew.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Not that i want to keep dragging this out forever, but...

...there's a difference between saying that a candidate "doesn't stir you" and in another place on here saying "I don't know if I've ever disliked a Democrat as much as I do Barack Obama" and "I can't stand your candidate".

I just want to explain where I got the idea that you seem to have some very personal hatred and disdain against Obama and I wanted to understand how you got that.
But I guess you're saying I understood you wrong. Sorry about that.

Left on 49

On the contrary.

Your candidate doesn't stir me because I can't stand him.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Why?

Is it something you can explain, or is it visceral?

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

See my above comments.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Let me repeat it then....

The problem is that Obama has never stood up when the heat....
Submitted by Robert P. on Wed, 01/09/2008 - 12:43pm.

was on him.

You can scoff at all those "present" votes in the Illinois legisature (seven times on abortion, at least twice on gun control). You can scoff at our questioning why he was silent about the war for 11 months after being elected, though his whole reason for being in the race is his "ardent" anti-war sentiment; and, that his first bill concerning Iraq came only AFTER he opened his Presidential Exploratory Committee. You can scoff at our questioning his voting for every funding bill that has been submitted since he entered the Senate, even though he ran on voting against the $87 Billion funding bill. You can scoff at our questioning why he would vote against the Kerry amendment, which would have started organized redeployment. But, it doesn't change the fact that Barack Obama seems like a wimp, who won't stand up for anything unless it is politically convenient.

What change will he stand up for when the going gets tough and he can't please everyone?

No, I don't want Barack Obama as my President. No thank you.

I could support Barack Obama at a different time in our history, but right now the country has been DRAGGED so far to the right that it will only be through a huge force of will that we will drag it back to the center. Obama has the same problem that clinton had, talking about the middle ground as if it is a static thing. I've always described what happened under Clinton this way. We started off like this:

Liberal..........Moderate..........Conservative
1...................5.....................10

Clinton said, let's govern from the center, so he moved to "5" and passed some bills, did some good things. The problem was what happened next, which was how the Republicans took over the narrative and made it this:

Liberal..........Moderate..........Conservative
5...................10.....................15

So, now we have "moderates" like Joe Lieberman, John McCain, and Mitt Romney and our true "liberals" are portrayed as crack-pots.

We have to DRAG the nation back to a place where 5 is the middle. That, will be a 24/7 fight against the media, the rich, the lobbyists, the corporations, etc. Anyone who thinks Republicans and conservatives will "work together" is just a freakin' idiot. This will be battle, over every bill, over every speech, over Christmas card lists and who we hire and everything else. It will be the Clinton era all over again. I don't see anything from Obama that says he will be up to this fight.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

by the way...

If you absolutely can't stand someone i would say that person stirs you a whole lot :-)

Touche, as our priest used to say...

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Out of curiosity,

Who are your two in the LG race? I need to know more, but I'm leaning heavily towards Besse, though I'm liking Smathers.

I'm posting tomorrow on the Lt. Governor's race.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

too far

There are plenty of reasons to like or not like someone. Obviously, I'm supposed to be on your side in this, but Robert clearly has strong feelings in this regard that aren't terribly naive.

My mother once commented that in interviewing a job candidate, any single person will miss a large measure of a person's personality, but just four or five people in the room will get almost all of it. I think there's a lesson in political campaigns there -- I've grudgingly had to accept over the past couple of decades that Dukakis is, in fact, a bit of a ninny, just like Clinton is a womanizer, Gore is boring, and Dean is a hothead. At the same time, we all would have been better off had the Republicans listened to us when we said Bush was an idiot and a charlatan and that Cheney was evil and manipulative. Not all of these are true -- Gore isn't a serial exaggerator, for instance. But when an argument gains traction, even among people you don't like, sometimes it's . For all his good qualities, Obama is at heart more of a compromiser, and he has quite a high opinion of himself (what politician doesn't?).

I hope Edwards' supporters don't think any less of me because of my distaste for their champion, and I'd hope they'd at least consider the things I don't like about him.

...and there you have it.....

I've grudgingly had to accept over the past couple of decades that Dukakis is, in fact, a bit of a ninny, just like Clinton is a womanizer, Gore is boring, and Dean is a hothead.

We found something we agree on. See how easy that was? :)



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

as much as I like Al Gore...

like Clinton is a womanizer, Gore is boring, and Dean is a hothead.

the one decision he made on his own SUCKED!!

Joe Lieberman

This won't convince you, but...

We're simply too far apart for either one of us to change our minds, I think, but the dialog may be healthy anyway.

This comes down, I think, to a belief in how change happens. If I can go pop psychology for a moment, I think both Edwards himself and his supporters see him as the champion, the knight, who can stand up and slay the beast for us. I say, there's hardly anything in the world you can get done that way.

I'll reference my long diatribes over in the Lawson thread, particularly why I think libertarians (both lower and upper case 'L') are reprehensible, but largely harmless. If you spend any time at all in community organizing, you know that you very quickly run into a lot of people with wildly differing opinions and agendas. It's only when you can bring everybody to some base level agreement that you actually manage to move forward and change something. There's a lot of yelling and shouting that goes on in the process, but once that dies down, if you can come together, you wield awesome power for radical change. (I wrote more on this at TPMCafe after Iowa.) Obama picks his spots, yes, but I think this article puts the lie to Obama never doing anything tough politically.

Edwards changed the tenor of the debate with his rhetoric, yes, but I don't know if it's going to get him anywhere. Obama has the ability to build a tidal wave behind him.

Glass Houses

It took Edwards:

3 years, 1 month and 2 days from the day he voted for the Iraq War Resolution
1 year, 8 months and 10 days from the day he ended his presidential campaign
1 year, 10 days from the day he ended his campaign for the vice presidency and
10 months, 11 days from the day he ended his tenure in the Senate

...to publicly say he was wrong about his vote on the Iraq War resolution in the Washington Post...a move that coincided with increasing disapproval for the war? That's not convenient?

I'm not actually criticizing Sen. Edwards on that issue, but if you're going to throw stones, at least acknowledge that your guy hasn't been the most consistent on all the issues either. Iraq, trade, health care, et. al. And you know what they say about people in glass houses...

----
There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracts. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert F. Kennedy

----
There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracks. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert F. Kennedy

better than

6 months after starting a presidential campaign, like one opponent.
and its better than opposing a timetable for withdrawal until starting a presidential campaign...

I would rather the "convenience" of 1 year after an election than the conveience of 6 months before an election.

"Keep the Faith"

"Keep the Faith"

You're defining it as the political arena

I'm defining it as the arena of life.....all inclusive.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Ugh.

Again, this isn't a fight I was looking for, but I can't back off this.

This is my understanding of Edwards bio:

Edwards admirably rose from humble beginnings and took advantage of NC's excellent public university system to make himself into quite an attorney. He then took a series of high profile, high dollar cases, making him the single most feared plaintiff's attorney in NC, but did very little true pro bono or public advocate work in the process. (I do not count work on contingency.) After the death of his son, he was inspired to jump into politics, where he has now one one, single election in a Democratic trending year against an incredibly weak incumbent. After two years, his close shave at the VP nomination and admirable work in the impeachment saga got people in Washington buzzing, and he started missing votes left and right as he raised money for a Presidential campaign. In that campaign, he managed to sneak in as a #2 in Iowa, after which he managed to narrowly win a grand total of two primaries, in his home and birth states. He was brought on to Kerry's Presidential campaign to bolster the charisma and appeal in the south of the ticket, of which he failed utterly at the latter and either failed to do or was kept from doing the former. After opening the faucet on his political and lawyer connections to admirably establish and endow a center on poverty at UNC, he decided to make yet another run at the presidency. Despite four years spent nearly living in Iowa, wooing union endorsements, milking local media during the political lulls, and making his name ubiquitous, he barely managed to squeak out second place.

Many people have been attracted by Edwards rhetoric, but trying to sell his biography as being somehow more noble or in the trenches than Obama's is hard for me to understand. The only notable aspects that I can see are his Alger-esque rise from poverty, his work in the impeachment saga, and a minor center at UNC. Maybe I'm missing something.

Here's my understanding of Obama's biography (and I'm doing both of these from memory):

Born as the child of a biracial, bicultural marriage that failed early, Obama was raised by a highly successful single mother who raised him in Indonesia, before he went to live with his maternal grandparents. (I have to interject here that the story of his absent father is a dead ringer for my grandfather's absence in my father's life, so there's some personal resonance here too.) Despite his obvious natural abilities, his rather typical teenage boredom and disillusionment caused his academics to suffer initially, but after two years at Occidental in California he transfered to Columbia, finished his BA, and worked briefly but highly successfully in business. Looking for more, he moved to Chicago to work with the IAF there (the organization that Hillary Clinton had earlier examined in her master's thesis, and concluded that community organizing was quaint but an unrealistic mechanism for change), working in some of Chicago's poorest and most distressed neighborhoods on the South Side, just as the Reagan administration was cutting the legs out from under social support programs, and also worked on several political campaigns in his time there. He left Chicago to go to Harvard for law school, becoming the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, then left to return to Chicago where he worked as an attorney representing civil and voter rights cases. After getting elected without the Chicago Machine to the state legislature, he pushed through a bill to require all police interrogations and confessions to be taped to prevent police brutality and rights abuses, against nearly every entrenched interest in the state. Following an unsuccessful primary campaign for US House, he rose through a crowded field to get the Democratic nomination to the U.S. Senate, where following an implosion of the Illinois GOP, he walked to election. Since being in the Senate, his most notable accomplishment has been passing a law creating a web site where all Senate earmarks are reported and tied to the Senator that inserted them.

Look, support Edwards if he inspires you -- that's what politics is all about. But don't freakin' try to tell me that Obama hasn't been the "man in the arena," in his life or in his politics. The man's biography is among the most noble and inspiring of any politician I can remember in my lifetime.

Obama's mother remarried a man

from Indonesia which is why, I imagine, they moved there.

I won't try from memory. I keep getting logged out for some reason, but Obama's childhood might not have been idyllic, but it wasn't exactly what I would consider tragic or harsh. His mother remarried a man from Indonesia, so Obama did have a father figure at least for a while. I don't know when his mother divorced her second husband, but she joined her son in Hawaii at some point and I imagine brought his half sister with her. Obama went back to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents when he was ten I think. He attended a private school and lived with his maternal grandparents so he could pursue educational opportunities. He graduated with honors. He admits to abusing drugs and alcohol as a means to help him cope with issues surrounding his biracial heritage (from his autobio)

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time considering any of this as a test of the man. Certainly his mother's death when he was around 34 is tragic and I'm very sorry for his loss.

I look at what John Edwards the man has been through - not JRE the politician - and I know that he has been through more than I would ever want to endure and he is still fighting. I begrudgingly feel the same way about Hillary Clinton. I do not feel this way about Obama. I realize my definition of being tested is narrow, but I'm not really looking at political experience.

Please understand that I'm not saying Obama isn't brilliant, dynamic, compassionate, exciting and inspiring. He is. I think at moments they all are. I just don't think that as a man, Obama has truly been personally tested in a way that makes maintaining these qualities a challenge. This is obviously just my opinion and I doubt there's much you can say that will change my mind. I appreciate that you are trying, though.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Wow.

You know, I don't know anyone on this site well enough to understand their experiences growing up, so I say this with all due respect..statements like:

Obama's childhood might not have been idyllic, but it wasn't exactly what I would consider tragic or harsh.

...only re-emphasize the lack of racial understanding that exists in the "progressive" blogosphere. Forget the Republicans--have Democrats developed a genuine understanding of race?

----
There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracts. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert F. Kennedy

----
There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracks. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert F. Kennedy

My nephew is biracial.

His childhood has been neither idyllic nor harsh. My brother and my wonderful sil are divorced. Fortunately they get along and we are all still one family and try to act like a family. I don't have brown skin, but someone I know and love deeply does. I do not assume that every man or woman with brown skin has had a harsh life just like I don't assume that every woman has been taken less than seriously because she has a vagina and not a penis. Since Barack Obama does not refer to having had a harsh childhood, I'm not going to assume that he did simply because he has brown skin. He wrote an autobiography and attributes his drug use/abuse to his struggles with his multiracial heritage but he also refers to growing up in a middle class family. I'm sorry, but by comparison to almost all of the young African American children I worked with at the elementary school, this is not a harsh life.

[edit] I should qualify the above. The school was a high poverty school and most of the children were from one of the roughest public housing developments in our area. I still cry when I think of what some of these children were going through and the things they talked about at school. Anyway...that's my basis for comparison.

[edit #2} Also, please don't think I honestly believe I know what it is like to have brown skin/be a minority/be African American because my nephew does/is. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just trying to give you some understanding of what I have experienced that serves as my basis for comparison.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Hmmm....

Perhaps it should, but "had a harsh childhood" doesn't motivate me on a candidate. Edwards' beginnings certainly seem to resonate with some.

What moves me about Obama is that at all points, when he could have gotten comfortable and coasted for a while, he challenged himself to get deeper into helping people. He passed up a business career to work at NYPIRG and IAF, got a law degree worth millions then promptly put it to work for social justice, then got into politics.

Maybe Edwards' 28,000 square foot house set off from everyone else in the woods so he doesn't have to rub elbows with lesser folk shouldn't bother me, but it does. Or at least it takes the luster off of his bio.

(sorry to all for continuing this topic -- I promise to limit my participation in the primary wars to this thread.)

You are hereby banned from any further

primary thread discussions.......

Um...you know I"m kidding, right?

I don't think Obama is a bad candidate and he's a wonderful human being - I just don't think he's the best candidate.

I like Edwards, you like Obama. Your guy wins the nomination and I promise I'll vote for him in the general. How's that? :)



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!

Yeah, I've long since said I'll be more than happy to get behind any of the Big Three if they take the nomination. And I'd be an utter flaming hypocrite if I did nothing but rabbit on about the importance of finding consensus and airing disagreements in community organizing, and then declare I'm taking my ball and going home because my guy didn't win.

Dang

If I could afford the elbow room, I'd not hesitate to perch myself in the middle of a bunch of acreage.
I don't think Edwards has an problem rubbing elbows with "lesser folks," but personally, I'm getting more persnickety and misanthropic every day.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I only have 4 acres

....but I'll be damned if I'm not perched in the middle ruling the working class with a kindly hand.

Bwahahahahaha...yeah...my children have to do the dishes, laundry and walk the dogs. :) Of course, they think I'm a tyrant.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I don't expect this to be come part of the progressive canon,

but engagement on a day-to-day basis with people who are different from you, who disagree with you, who look different from you, and who come from very different backgrounds matters an awful lot to me. It's why I hate gated communities with a seething passion. It's why I waste so many words on mixed income housing and inclusionary zoning. And it's a big reason why I live on 1/5 of an acre in Durham. (There are many others, of course.)

I don't expect everyone to agree with me on this -- heck, my own parents keep looking for their spot away from everyone. But it's a value that Obama seems to share, and Edwards doesn't.

Oh..yeah MTB....

I was only referring to Obama's childhood b/c LiberalNC had used the details to say that Obama was "tested" as a man. That's the only reason I brought it up.

I had always been referring to adult years. I think we can learn a lot about a person by knowing about their childhood, but I don't consider it a test of their character except in the harshest circumstances where someone truly has overcome incredible odds.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

not tested in life?

I find it hard to understand how you can say that a black guy who never really had a father in his live, lived in Indonesia as a kid, was raised by a single mother who then died of cancer and who was a community organizer with a church-based group in Chicago seeking to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime, has "not been tested by life".
I'm pretty sure he has been tested a lot more than most other candidates.

Left on 49

Hey there T....glad to hear of your fame. :)

I've tried to respond to you twice and have been logged out both times. You can see an abbreviated response above your comment. I need to go see if I can figure why I'm being logged out. I'm hoping it's simply a problem with safari since it has crashed on me twice today. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring your response.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

no problem

It's hard to ignore Me :-)

I think NV and SC will tell the tale.

If Obama does worse polled in NV and worse that polled among whites in SC, then it could be the Bradley effect. Which sucks, people need to get over race, religion, and sexual orientation and start worrying about who would do the best job.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

And yet...

You post this anyway.

Sigh.

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There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracts. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert F. Kennedy

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There are people in every time and every land who want to stop history in its tracks. They fear the future, mistrust the present, and invoke the security of the comfortable past which, in fact, never existed. - Robert F. Kennedy

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