Dear Bev

Updated with email message from a friend: Keep telling her the the "LG has no clothes" - she needs the reminder now and then, but she is the best hope for what is important to people like us. That Bozo from Charlotte will see us out to the highest bidder. This is exactly how I see it.

Back to original post . . .

I'm sure you and your staff agonized about whether to sell out poor brown people for political advantage, but agony or not, you came down on the wrong side of an important moral issue. Which makes your campaign irrelevant to me. Don't bother calling. Don't bother writing. Don't bother me at all. You don't need progressives, and progressives don't need you. I'm heading for Mike Munger.

RALEIGH - Leaders of the state's community colleges voted today to close their doors to illegal immigrants until they complete a study and come up with a permanent policy. The decision today by the State Board of Community Colleges marks a reversal from Thursday, when officials indicated they were inclined to admit illegal immigrants pending the outcome of the study.

Lt. Gov. Beverly Perdue, the Democratic candidate for governor, made the motion to ban illegal immigrants from community colleges while the study is ongoing.

Comments

If you are dropping women who sell out brown people....

Forget about it James. The entire Democratic Party is once again running to the middle and we have no choice but to grimace and bear it. They are weak, either in their willingness to stand up for what they believe in or in what they believe. Obama has gone to the middle, Perdue, Hagan, all of them. I thought this was going to be a change election, but the only thing that has changed is the names. So, I'll be voting and hoping that they are just doing what it takes to win. In the end, I would rather have a closet-liberal in the Governor's mansion than a Republican or a Libertarian.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

You're probably right

but I'm fed up. Perdue is 10 points ahead against a liar who's going nowhere fast. Maybe a vote for Munger will tilt the balance and put Duke Energy in the governor's mansion, maybe it won't.

But I'm done putting my money and energy behind crap like this.

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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

Well actually it would be

Well actually it would be "poor brown people" (aren't we all more or less some shade of brown?) that entered the country illegally with their parents. And it's just until they study the issue and issue a policy, not permenantly. It's not quite as grave as you make it seem and there are certain realities one must accept. One of them is that the issue of illegal immigration is a mine field for Democrats. Republicans will exploit anything they can in that regard and the majority of voters will side with them on the issue if a Democrat appears to be "opening the floodgates." It's just a political fact. What percent of the voters in NC self identify themselves as "Progressive Democrats"? How many will take your position and leave Purdue?

I'm a moderate Democrat.

Not many

I'm not worried about starting a groundswell, because if this proves anything, it proves that progressives don't count in North Carolina.

I'm more worried about my ability to look in the mirror.

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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

James, I hear you! Dem leaders have become part of the problem.

James, I am so glad you wrote about this issue. I would have been disappointed to log onto BlueNC this morning and not see this discussion.

I am done with Perdue, too. I hadn't "come on board" yet despite many respected friends asking me to contribute to her campaign. I didn't like what I had heard about her enthusiastic pursuit of the military-industrial economy for North Carolina.

But her stance barring immigrants from community college is really the last straw.

We in the United States really need to look at our role in creating the immigration situation. We enact policies that kill economic opportunity in Mexico and create intense pressure for economic migration. Then we abuse and arrest people once they to come here, and create an environment of terror and intimidation for those who have not been caught. We have all heard about the kids left on the side of the highway in the middle of the night after their mother's arrest. The N&O reported today that people are not seeking health care for fear of being deported. Last summer at the Breastfeeding & Feminism conference at UNC people spoke of kids being left alone after night-time raids swept up their parents, and new moms are afraid to leave the house even to go to the park with their babies. And in fact, last November a breastfeeding mother was separated from her nursing baby after she was arrested on suspicion of shoplifting and then detained for immigration reasons. She was denied her request to nurse her child who was not tolerating formula, jeopardizing her baby's health and well-being--not to mention the agony and worry this must have caused her.

The response from our Democratic leadership is ESSENTIAL. The effort to slam the door on undocumented people attending community college is one more way to institutionalize racism. When the government defines a person as illegal and therefore criminalizes their very existence, there is no limit to how much abuse those people "deserve" and can expect to receive. For the first time I really feel on a gut level that I understand what it must have been like to live under Jim Crow--it gave the entire society permission to dehumanize the Other. We are seeing this in a new form in 21st century America.

For Perdue to now be a LEADER in this trend is unconscionable. This hardline approach may be popular and come November, it may work, but it is selling out the soul of our party to take this line. As much as I want to cheer for victory up and down the whole Democratic ticket, Perdue will not get my money and she may very well not get my vote, depending on what happens between now and November.

Please note that Purdue only

Please note that Purdue only voted to not allow illegal immigrants to enroll in community college while a the issue is studied and a clear policy is established. If the policy deems that they can enroll then they will again be allowed to do so. I don't think things are as dire as you seem to see them.

I'm a moderate Democrat.

Please note that Perdue didn't have to do it

Why not allow them to enroll (since that has been the norm for so long) until it was decided that they absolutely couldn't? Why would we err on the side of denying education to a student seeking to improve his or her lot in life? What is the public interest served by doing that?

That's a simple one Bru

It provides political cover. Immunization against illegal immigration if you will. I do agree that they should be allowed to attend by the way. I'm just not going to hold it against her for doing what she has to do politically. :)

I'm a moderate Democrat.

I think we get that, Huh

But the question wasn't what political purpose it serves. The question was what public interest it serves. I'd like to hear her articulate that.

Y'all,

It's not her fault!!!

None

none at all, and I know, I was being "captain Obvious" with my comment :>)

I'm a moderate Democrat.

I've been off Perdue since she held her hands up to fend off

mental health and substance abuse care professionals and patients at a forum in February and insisted "Y'all, it's not my fault!!" That is not the attitude a leader takes, whether it's she believes it's her fault or not. She has not shown me anything during the intervening months to show me anything different. I will probably hold my nose and vote for her, but I'm not happy about it. Or I might just throw a vote to Munger so they get their 2%. There's no way I can vote for McCrory. I suppose that she doesn't care about the few votes like mine, but I think she should.

I thought the Puppetshow was the enemy

No voting for Munger or others that buy booths from AFP and line up with the Puppetshow.

The Libertarian Party was out in full force at the American's for Prosperity "Take Back Our State" rally at the legislature this year.

Jerimee provided the photos in a blog report here (can't find the link at the moment).

In the line of booths and tents right beside all of the Pope organizations, there was Libertarian tent with plenty of Munger signs, followed by a John McCain tent.

Libertarian Chair Barbara Howe even shared the stage with Bob Dole and Dallas Woodhouse at WhackoFest on the Halifax Mall.

Munger? Hell no.

 

Priorities

When you're a member of a new party in this state, getting 2% of the vote is more important than anything else.

The Libertarians are in the blatant pandering stage of politics -- I'd be out there with AFP too if all I wanted to do was save the millions of dollars my party pisses away every few years to get on the ballot.

Despite the bad taste in company, don't make that the reason you're against Mr. Munger.

--Arcangelo

The Devil make me do it with Art Pope?

Despite the bad taste in company, don't make that the reason you're against Mr. Munger.*--Arcangelo

James has a excellent reason for not voting nor supporting Mike, and does not need anymore excuses. That is like Jesus hanging in the Temple with the Devil and having him make change to the money changers.

The Libertarians were Invited to the AFP

The Libertarian group nearly stormed out when that FOX lackie Michael Savage said the event was for conservatives only. Other events at which Libertarians had a booth. The Eno River Festival, the Marijuana March, and the Peace March and rally in Fayetteville. The Fayetteville one took some guts as some very rough biker types were threatening all the marchers. The North Carolina Libertarian Party even marched on DC at that Anti-war event. Libertarians will show up and express their political opinions whenever invited to do so. Even if we don't totally agree with the hosts on their whole list of issues. BTW the AFP gave the Libertarians the space for free because more than likely they wanted to protect their 501c status. If the event seemed to be all Republican politics they were going have some issues about keeping their educational status for tax purposes.

Libertarians are for limited government on all issues so that means Libertarians tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Or as some would say, "you should be free to live your life as you see fit just don't ask other's to foot the bill".

I would say you shouldn't reach a snap judgment and research the positions Munger for Governor of North Carolina

The original article might explain why Perdue is afraid to debate Munger. But the voters should not have an informed choice should they? It would be like an actual democracy instead of the two party dog and pony dive for the middle show voters currently have.

Afraid?

I doubt that. Perdue and McCrory both want to get elected, and neither benefits from Munger being in the race. From their point of view, why should they care if he's involved?

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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

You just outlined why they fear debating Munger

They both fear that the voting public might like the Libertarian Candidate better. I suppose you are right dictators and tyrants shouldn't care about open honest elections. The last thing they would want is to compete fairly by taking their case to the voting public in an open debate.

So much wrong with this diary

It is your choice to vote for whomever you choose so if you wish to vote for Mccrory, Munger or leave it blank you may have your pleasure. But your diary is a diatribe either calling our Lt. Gov. racist or bowing to racist, I am not sure.

To begin the Lt Gov stated early that she opposed allowing illegals to attend our institution and she agreed with AG Cooper on his decision. She has said all along she would vote to continue the ban, but this morning I on the radio from her spokesman that she only had one vote, and she doubted she had the votes to keep the ban in place, however something happened to have 10 others vote her way, if you wish to blame someone I would try to find out which one of those other 10 changed there mind and why.

Personally I agree with the decision to continue the ban until our legislature figures out how they wish to procede on this issue.

Also this is not about "Brown people" this is about the law. These folks are criminals they sould not be here, we can not throw them out, it is not practical, but those spots should go to those who follow the law. And when it comes to immigration, not all illegals are "brown" and not all "brown people" are illegal. Most if not all of the Hispanics I know, work with, attend Church with and other forms of life all came to this county the leagal way, or were born here as citizens. They are every bit of Americans as any other one who have the same claim. And the problem with illegals are not just coming from Mexico. They include Asians, Europeans, and Africans of all race and color. Even those who are Presbyterians from Northern Ireland as my family roots are, should be subject to the same rules, it is you who declare this a "brown" issue.

That's what people think of when you mention illegal aliens...

Is this guy.

Personally, I find opinions like your inconceivable. You, me, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for broken laws. Heck, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for murder and genocide. Now, we get to be all self-righteous?

It goes beyond being racist to close the borders to those who don't look like us, it is counter-productive. I'm sorry, but we became a world power because we were willing to exploit people who came here from nothing, where a little was better than they were used to having. John Adams quote "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy" could be written by my forefathers as, "I must work the mines, the railroads, and on the farm so that my grandson may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy."

Now, we're all fat and happy and it's time to close up the border. Bologna. Also, baloney. This idea:

These folks are criminals they sould not be here, we can not throw them out, it is not practical, but those spots should go to those who follow the law.

Well, isn't that convenient. They deserve no rights, but it isn't practical to throw them out because if we do who will clean my place of business after hours? Who will wash my car, who will cook my Big Mac, who will paint my house, who will pick my vegetables, who will kill my Kentucky Fried chickens?

Give them liberty, or give them the boot and prepare to pay twice or thrice what you now pay for everything.

CLARKS SUMMIT — Saying the nation's immigration system is broken, Pennsylvania's largest grower of fresh-to-market tomatoes announced Monday he will no longer produce the crop because he can't find enough workers to harvest it.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

There is more reality than most people wish to know.

Dept. of Homeland Security has deported over 90,000 children under the age of 17 to Mexico without a parent or caregiver

It goes without saying that the saddest element in the current enforcement of immigration laws is the apprehension, deportation or abandonment of children.

Stories surface every day of parents who were apprehended and fearing the same for their children, say nothing about their children at home. They hope a relative or neighbor will eventually realize their children are alone and will take care of them until they can be reunited.


A Mexican state policeman asks the names of two children who were deported from the United States to Nogales, Sonora.
(Source: La Jornada)

According to a new report released this week in Mexico City by the Population, Border and Migrant Affairs Commission, for every three adults deported from the United States there is one child abandoned and left behind.

But what is even more shocking and deserves further scrutiny from Congress and the American people is the documentation in the report that cites how in the first 7 months of the year the United States has deported 90,000 children to Mexico — children without their parents and who are alone.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Don't think it doesn't happen in NC - it does.

I've seen it personally - children under the age of 10 left without parents and without any resources. Remember - many of these children are American citizens, just like you or me.

Fortunately, the community in the particular county is savvy about finding relatives and caregivers for the children who can care for them before they either find their way into the foster care system or are deported themselves.

Separating children from their parents

when there is no abuse or neglect present on the parents' part becomes abuse on the part of the system. The trauma that these children suffer is immeasurable. How can they ever trust anything if their personal security is shattered like that? It's setting children up for failure.

Yes, it is abuse.

and I would go a step further. To ban kids who've played by the rules that they have a say over ... i.e., staying out of trouble and doing well in school ... from furthering their education simply because their parents brought them here as minors after they were born makes no sense. I personally know of kids in our school system who are excellent students but because they crossed our border as small children their dreams and all their hard work and their decency, maturity and intelligence is being wasted and lost to all of us.

This policy is not good, it is not helpful, and it is not right. It is bad, it is damaging and it is wrong. Period.

But then, because of the spewed fear of illegals coming from even those who should know better (hello, Mr. & Mrs. Republican Legislator) used as election fodder for the fearful Fox News fed masses, any NC politician who doesn't express at least a modicum of anti-immigrant sentiment is handing his or her seat to their R opponent. This is where we are and it sucks.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry Truman

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

oh, so much WORD

word word word.

You do write a righteous rant when you get going.

Hey, new Facebook friend.

THIS, is why Cherokee must be taught in elementary schools, sir.

Hmmmmm

Maybe the Perdue campaign is taking a page from the Bob Orr playbook. Whenever we ignored Bob for too long during his goober campaign, he'd poke me, looking for some hard-edged criticism. Being shunned by flaming liberals was nothing but gravy for the good judge.

Maybe by distancing herself from progressive ideals, the LG is building her street cred with mainstream xenophobes, you know, the ones always asking what part of illegal you don't understand.

From the chatter on the Tubes, it seems to be working.

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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

Morons, politics and brilliance

There are some brilliantly powerful politicians in this state who are morons.

There are other politicians who are brilliant and powerful.

Perdue is not the former of the two.

But she isn't the latter of the two either, Arc

She is certainly not a moron, and she has certainly accrued power. But Bev isn't "brilliant" in any sense I can think of. One really need not be brilliant to win elections, even lots of elections.

What she is is reasonably smart and ambitious enough a while back to heed the advice that her right-place-and-time-and-friends-and-persona combination had posited her for a good clear shot at the governor's office.

She comes from a school in the Democratic party that has dominated this state for a long time and plans to hold that dominance as long as possible. Bev's almost certain occupation of the Governor's Office represents a successful strategy.

What it doesn't represent is any movement by this state toward a progressive agenda.

But maybe she will demonstrate a leadership as Governor that I never saw in her as a senator. Maybe go-along-get-along Bev will, once she's secured the election, cut some strings and reveal new strengths and interests.

I hope so.

Me too,

I have that hope for a lot of our candidates this time. I hope that a strong Democratic majority will finally give the Dems a chance to relax enough to make some policy that isn't all pander to the right. Pander to what IS right for a change.

Progressive Democrats of North Carolina

Hypocrite

is the least compelling of all criticisms on account of its widespread prevalence. Go for something harder and clearer.

Turn it into lying.

Myrick is manifestly a liar. She said she would term limit herself and she didn't. Harry is missing the boat by dancing around that issue.

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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

Have they not read the statistics

2042 there will not be a white majority. Hispanic population will be at 30% and very young. White population will be old (like many of us are now). Practically speaking, common sense should rule, we have to educate the younger population. Education is the key. I thought we understood that in this state and valued it.

Al Manning, retiree, native of eastern NC and proud of it, plenty of time to read, research and get annoyed about the lack of accountability in elected leaders these days. Married to a real southern lady and we live with two labs and two airedales who run

The anti-immigration forces hae this exact worry in mind

Our systems indeed appear to be struggling with the weight of illegal immigration. I wish I had an answer. But I don't think enrollment in community colleges (where they pay more than the cost of their attendance) is the right response. I understand the logic (I understand every aspect of "illegal"), but it leads to a moral position that is untenable.

White Europeans invaded this land first.

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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

Well actually your statement about "White Europeans invaded this

land first" is kind of snappy but not particularly fair. Native Americans aren't really "Native" themselves either. They came here from Asia if you recall and in fact shouldn't really be lumped together as one people any more than "White Europeans", "Hispanics" or "Africans." Various groups of Native Americans invaded, immigrated, went to war with each other all the time. The early explorers and settlers were just doing what NA's had been doing to each other for years, but with superior technology and carring diseases that NA's had no immunity to.

I'm a moderate Democrat.

Most evidence

suggests that when Asians found their way to North America, they encountered a land that was not otherwise occupied. Yes they had territorial wars, including some hum-dingers, but there's nothing to suggest they exterminated entire cultures the way the Europeans did.

You can split hairs about it, but the point stands. And as someone else wrote, non-whites will comprise a majority of the US population, perhaps in our lifetimes.

Might may very well be the coin of the realm, but that doesn't make it right.
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The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

I'm not trying to split

I'm not trying to split hairs at all, just think "white self-guilt" beatdowns don't accomplish much and I don't really like them. But that's just me. We don't have a monopoly on bad behavior and conquest and Native Americans aren't all noble and spiritually superior. But I did enjoy Billy Jack!

I'm a moderate Democrat.

Which Asians?

James,

It's my understanding that current evidence indicates multiple waves of migration from Asia into North and South America. Here's an excessively technical abstract from an NIH paper on the genetic evidence.

To scrutinize the male ancestry of extant Native American populations, we examined eight biallelic and six microsatellite polymorphisms from the nonrecombining portion of the Y chromosome, in 438 individuals from 24 Native American populations (1 Na Dené and 23 South Amerinds) and in 404 Mongolians. One of the biallelic markers typed is a recently identified mutation (M242) characterizing a novel founder Native American haplogroup. The distribution, relatedness, and diversity of Y lineages in Native Americans indicate a differentiated male ancestry for populations from North and South America, strongly supporting a diverse demographic history for populations from these areas. These data are consistent with the occurrence of two major male migrations from southern/central Siberia to the Americas (with the second migration being restricted to North America) and a shared ancestry in central Asia for some of the initial migrants to Europe and the Americas. The microsatellite diversity and distribution of a Y lineage specific to South America (Q-M19) indicates that certain Amerind populations have been isolated since the initial colonization of the region, suggesting an early onset for tribalization of Native Americans. Age estimates based on Y-chromosome microsatellite diversity place the initial settlement of the American continent at ~14,000 years ago, in relative agreement with the age of well-established archaeological evidence.

While the indigenous populations of North and South America (and the Caribbean islands) certainly suffered great brutality at the hands of European invaders and settlers, I think it is reckless to hold up Amerinds, or any other group, as without original sin. You're not doing that, but some of the sentiments sound near to it.

Being a living human being means being descended from people who have blood on their hands. Being a living human being means being descended from masters who copulated with their slaves, victims who bred with their oppressors, traitors who consorted with their enemies, and aggressors who raped the unwary.

We are powerless to wash away the stain of generations. But we each have it within us to rise above our history.

--
recently transplanted from Indianapolis, IN to Durham, NC

I wouldn't recommend drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me. -- Hunter S. Thompson

--
Garner, NC

I wouldn't recommend drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me. -- Hunter S. Thompson

Good point.

I don't mean to imply anyone is without sin by pointing out that the modern American era took root in the blood of indigent populations.

I'm simply making the existential observation that claims of dominion are fleeting. _____________________________________

The NC Family Policy Council doesn't speak for my family

Yup

True. Every culture whitewashes its own atrocities, and no one stays on top of the heap forever.

--
recently transplanted from Indianapolis, IN to Durham, NC

I wouldn't recommend drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me. -- Hunter S. Thompson

--
Garner, NC

I wouldn't recommend drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me. -- Hunter S. Thompson

I'm really tired of hearing

I'm really tired of hearing anything to do with illegal immigrants devolving into an issue against Hispanics. Quite frankly, I'm against illegal immigration. Am I against people wanting to come here? No. Am I against Hispanics? No. I'm against the people who chose to come here be them Canadians, Mexicans, or British for knowingly breaking the law. I think there is a happy medium between open and closed borders.

I agree with Perdue. I think we have an obligation to provide K-12 education to everyone, but it stops there. But I think illegals should be allowed to higher education institutions maintained by the state if they are on track to receiving a visa, green card, other documents, or going through the naturalization process in an effort to establish permanent, legal residency in the United States and North Carolina.

Though I think in the coming years to prevent Hispanics being 30% of the population by the year 2050, you'll start seeing some changes. I think it will be another oppression era that will be driven by racial fear. You'll begin to see more deportations, a wall built at the border, and quotas imposed on legal immigration. Maybe that's just me jumping to a conclusion, but I think it'll happen. Do I support such ideas if they were to happen? No. But I do know what accounts for such population growth and that is poverty and lack of education, both of which are prevalent in the Hispanic and African-American communities at a much higher rate than White and Asian communities. Now yes the community college system should play a hand in that for citizens, but in terms of illegals of any kind that involves the conditions I listed above.

I believe

I am correct in saying the predominant "illegal" population is hispanic which is why a discussion about illegal immigrants turns to an issue of hispanics.

My position on illegal immigration is not relevant to the issue on this thread which is education of illegal immigrants. Those illegal immigrants that are hear that have families have "legal, citizen" children in many cases so they are not going to be deported. They are here to stay.

Our basic obligation to education is certainly K-12 but we created publicly-supported community colleges and universities to create an educated work force that can compete in the world. Our tax dollars fund those institutions. We lost many jobs to China over the years and to India, and to compete we need educated workers and K-12 does not cut it. Look at the statistics and see the difference between K-12 versus associate degree versus bachelors degree. The jobs in the future require higher education.

Quotas on legal immigration, yes, I can see that happening. And, yes, I see a clamp down on illegal immigration but I see the ones here staying here.

The population growth is certainly driven by poverty and lack of education so would we not want to address that issue with education which leads you out of poverty?

Al Manning, retiree, native of eastern NC and proud of it, plenty of time to read, research and get annoyed about the lack of accountability in elected leaders these days. Married to a real southern lady and we live with two labs and two airedales who run

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