Hagan fails to sway Kissell's vote

Next time, don't let him have the window seat:

Many Senate Democrats are choosing not to lobby House members in their state delegations on the healthcare bill. Other Senate Democrats said their hands are tied because their colleagues seem entrenched in their positions.

Freshman Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) got involved, but it didn’t appear to work.

She said she used a plane ride from North Carolina to Washington to try to allay freshman Rep. Larry Kissell’s (D-N.C.) concerns about the bill’s effect on Medicare. Hagan said Kissell said he still planned to vote no.


Spring Semester, 2011

Mr. Kissel telling his yawning Social Studies class about, "My two years as a United States Congressman!"

Bell rings, students bolt, Larry slowly erasing the words "Bi-partisan" and "Centrist" from the chalkboard.

Good for Kay

Good to hear that Sen Hagan tried at least.

It's just that his promise

would be much better kept by supporting the bill, closing the donut hole in Part D and cleaning up the waste and abuses in Medicare, thereby strengthening it.

His pigheaded refusal to see that is what concerns me.


I'm live in the 10th District (Patrick McHenry -R). Obviously useless to contact him re health care reform if you're a Democrat. I contributed to Kissell's campaign in the hope that I'd have indirect representation in the House. Now he's acting like a Republican. Didn't he hear those Republicans last spring saying that they were going to "break" this President? Now he's joining with them on what is the most important legislative issue for the President and for the Democrats! What's going on with him?
(By the way, I'm 64 and I've never posted on a blog before. Feels empowering.)

Be careful, Hibriten

I was a "newbie" on blogs and especially here on BlueNC some months back. It is not for everyone. Be careful, Hibriten, because the majority of the folks that post here...and there are a great many...are very like-minded and anything that even can be considered not "mainstream" here will get some rebuttal. You have to be thick-skinned and be willing to accept that most of these people know EXACTLY what they're saying and can back it up. I have gotten myself in trouble but have stayed with it and accept it when I differ and get ridicule and chiding and, in many cases, am proven wrong.

You're on the right track, though, with your feelings on this HCR bill. This needs to get done. It is a DUH thing. A country like ours can do something for the most basic rights of its citizens and making sure adequate health care for us all is one of those things. Again...DUH.

I am older than you, so do not think that your age means squat. Not an issue. This country is made up of people from age 1 day to 100 years. We all have a stake in our future..and of our future generations' future. That's why this is SO important.


Another welcome

Making that first blog post is a big step ... good on ya for taking it.

I'm only 59 ... so it's very good to more gray power in the mix! Of course, gray is a matter of speaking since I've pulled out all my hair.


Welcome...and don't let Foxy discourage you.

Everybody gets zapped now and then...usually a result of making assumptions about others or calling someone an idiot for having thoughts that don't align with your own. It's a diverse group with just about every imaginable experience and background represented. Smart, too! Your thoughts and opinions will be heard and respected as long as you do the same.

Stan Bozarth

Not sure how to post a pdf

but this is how much Kissell's district has to lose if HCR doesn't pass:scroll down to see North Carolinalink to pdf

loftT, that says it all....

Accessing that link and going to Kissell in NC says it all.

This needs to be put out to the general public BIG TIME.

There is something wrong with how this HCR bill will eventually help the VAST majority of our citizens is not being presented to the average, voting American.

I want to fault our own party for not spending the money to get this out either via email or via TV ads or radio presentations...whatever.

It is going to eventually get to the president's desk, I am sure of it. But, the misconseptions and hard feelings and righty negatives are going to help the republicans in the Fall.

Thanks for the link. We here on BlueNC are not the ones that need to be convinced, however.

I know

We here on BlueNC are not the ones that need to be convinced, however.

I'm just hoping someone from Kissell's campaign monitors the blogs and has his ear.

Well said

I'm just hoping someone from Kissell's campaign monitors the blogs and has his ear.

YOUBETCHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I don't like is the dodging

Larry Kissell spent a couple of years cultivating people here at BlueNC. Not just me, all of us. We were a convenient channel and source of money. It's beyond disappointing that he wouldn't even step up to our door and explain himself. It's bad form at best, and it's cowardly.

It's not that he has any formal obligation, of course. I'm sure he thinks he has many more important things to do. But this kind of avoidance and silence is bush-league behavior. We were good enough that he would ask us for help, but not good enough to deserve a straight and honest explanation.


I think that's his strategy...to avoid the HCR debate/ vote / constituents altogether. Does he really think we're not all holding our breath until they pass the bill?

If this bill passes I can cover my currently uninsured 24 year old son immediately....

It should be a up or down vote

The health care bill should be a up or down vote and not a bill because of a sneaky way to get it passed. We need reform but we don't need to see it like this.

there will be a vote

Hypocrisy: A Parliamentary Procedure

In the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times, and was no stranger to the concept of “deem and pass.” That strategy, then decried by the House Democrats who are now using it, and now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld).


Nonsense. This has never been done before.

The Democrats' spin is that Republicans have used this process in the past, so they have no right to complain when Democrats use it. That's nonsense. The truth is that both Republicans and Democrats have used Budget Reconciliation to bring already passed budgets into conformance with previously passed budget resolutions, only.

Nobody has ever suggested using Budget Reconciliation to enact massive new government programs, until now.

What's more, the Slaughter "deem it passed" procedure would be the first time in American history in which a bill was deemed to be enacted without being passed in identical form by both the House and Senate. It is blatantly illegal and plainly unconstitutional, being contrary to Article 1, Sec. 7 of the U.S. Constitution, which requires that "every bill" which becomes law "shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate" before it goes to the President to be signed or vetoed.

What's more, the "reconciliation" they're talking about is not reconciling two versions of the bill. Rather, it is actually budget reconciliation, which is something entirely different -- and entirely inapplicable to this bill.

Budget reconciliation is a process for passing a new law (called a budget reconciliation bill) which amends an already-passed-and-signed-into-law budget law, to bring it into conformance with a previously-passed budget resolution, used to reduce budget deficits. But:

1) It's not a budget bill!
2) The bill being amended hasn't passed, and isn't law!
3) Enacting the reconciliation bill won't bring anything into conformance with a budget resolution!
4) It won't reduce the deficit, it will increase it!

So the budget reconciliation process is not applicable to this bill.

Congress now has two healthcare bills:

HR 3200 (which does not fund abortions) was passed by the House. It can't get enough votes to pass in the Senate.

HR 3590 (which does fund abortions) was passed by the Senate. It was done as a Senate amendment which entirely replaced the text of an unrelated minor House bill, which is how the Senate bill got an "HR" bill number. They had to do it this way to skirt the Constitution, because the bill raises taxes, and Article 1, Sec. 7 says, "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." It probably can't get enough votes to pass in the House.

The two bills (HR3200 & HR3590) could be reconciled in a conference committee, which tries to pick and choose between the provisions of the two bills, and produce a compromise which will be acceptable to both houses. Then the compromise bill should be sent to both houses for debate and votes -- and in the Senate, a possible filibuster.

That's how the legislative process works -- or how it always has, until now.

But the Democrats don't think they can actually come up with a compromise bill that will pass in both the House and Senate. So they're not even trying. In fact, they didn't even appoint a conference committee.

Instead, they plan to discard HR 3200, and "deem" HR 3590 to have passed the House, without the House members actually voting on it.

If that doesn't make your blood boil with outrage, you either haven't been paying attention or you have the heart of a tyrant.

You're so full of __it

You wrote:

Budget reconciliation is a process for passing a new law (called a budget reconciliation bill) which amends an already-passed-and-signed-into-law budget law, to bring it into conformance with a previously-passed budget resolution, used to reduce budget deficits.

Only in Dave's Whacked Out World would Bush's serial changes in tax policy - all tax cuts passed by reconciliation - be considered a move designed to reduce budget deficits. Republicans made this stinking bed, Dave. Your whining about having to sleep in it is music to my ears.

I've never heard of "hypocracy."

What is it? I'm thinking it's the new term for Republicans. They want to establish a Hypocracy rather than maintain Democracy? That's it...call the press!!

Or...learn to spell if you want to communicate.

Stan Bozarth


That is the best arguement. Or is that argument?

If that is all you have it is not a wonder that americans are against this health care proposal in majority.

James presented the arguments elsewhere.

Why would I take time to argue with you? What would be the point? Why would anyone argue with or present facts to Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity or Rush the Tush?

Stan Bozarth

thanks for the link

Quoting from that page...

KENT CONRAD (D-ND): "It [budget reconciliation] was never designed for that kind of significant legislation [like ObamaCare]. It was designed for deficit reduction."

Pelosi/Reed/Obama are planning on passing a so-called "reconciliation bill" which amends a law that isn't law, and hasn't even been passed by Congress. Instead, there will be a line in the reconciliation bill which "deems" the original bill passed by the House, though it actually has not been passed by the House. Then the reconciliation bill will go the the Senate, where it almost certainly will not pass without changes; in the meantime, the President will sign into law the Senate-passed HR 3590, though the House has not passed it, and though the bill which the House has passed hasn't passed the Senate.

This is completely unprecedented, and utterly lawless! It is blatantly unconstitutional. The Republicans have never pulled stunts like this, and probably never would, because most of them are not that crooked.

Hopefully, Larry Kissell is not that crooked, either.

The whole purpose is to create a law that they can't get the votes to pass legitimately, to enact their federal healthcare takeover & rationing bill, so that Americans can have
the kind of healthcare that the UK enjoys.


You and Larry Kissell have a lot in common

you're both masters at dodging direct questions. Good to have you visiting again, Dave.

My own personal view is that this specific parliamentary maneuver is unprecedented in some important ways and will have some far-reaching consequences, the most significant of which will be the end of the filibuster.

If Republicans hadn't lifted obstructionism to an art form in recent years, I'd actually be sympathetic to your case. That said, the level of political perversion ongoing in your party right now is, to use our own standard, intolerably obnoxious. Extreme measures are required.

If the price Democrats pay is rejection at the polls, that's fine with me. If this also ends the practice of filibuster, I can live with that too.

Paybacks are hell.

it won't

It won't end the filibuster. It takes 2/3 to change Senate rules, and there's no chance of that anytime soon. Few if any of the 41 Republicans would vote for it, and my guess is that most of the Democrats would oppose it, too.

It will so

My point is that it will effectively end the filibuster by continuing to shape a whole new class of parliamentary procedures. This use of reconciliation effectively ends Republican obstruction without a cloture vote. Get used to it.

Well, I cannot go that far

If the price Democrats pay is rejection at the polls, that's fine with me. If this also ends the practice of filibuster, I can live with that too.

What is that old saying?.."What goes around, comes around".

This is going to bite the repugs in the ass if this does not get to the president's desk.

Wait and see.

I think it will, though, so maybe I am getting upset for nothing here. Sure hope so.

Kissell expected to vote NO

N.C. Democrat's health vote may be key

Etheridge is undecided after supporting bill earlier; rest of the state's lawmakers fall in line with their parties.
Already, the state's three most conservative Democrats are expected to vote no - just as they did in November when the health bill first came up for a vote. U.S. Reps. Heath Shuler of Waynesville, Larry Kissell of Biscoe and Mike McIntyre of Lumberton say the bill doesn't go far enough to bring down health costs and would, instead, cost American taxpayers too much money.


They're repeating the conventional wisdom.

In fact, Rep. Kissell is deservedly under intense pressure from Democrats to do the right thing and vote for reform this time.

Supporters of reform got another boost this morning with release of the Congressional Budget Office analysis of the fiscal impact of the final reconciliation amendments package. Under that package of amendments, the reduction of the deficit over the first 10 years goes up to $138 billion saved.

Those Democrats who are genuine fiscal conservatives have no excuse left for voting "no" on health care reform.

Rep. Kissell's office number is 202-225-3715.

Dan Besse

what is being said

What the republicans are saying now is that the CBO has made only estimates because they can't determine if the information given to them by the administration is accurate or will show savings for sure. Democrats are saying that the CBO is saying there will be savings and republicans are saying the CBO is only guessing. I wonder which is true.

The republicans are also saying that the only reason they are showing the savings is because many of the good things in the health care bill will only happen after 4 years of collecting increased taxes and fees and penalties before they are really to go into affect. I question that part of it myself.

Health insurance companies

The average profit margin for health insurance companies in america is right at 3.5%.

That is below most other businesses of equal size by a very large amount.

If you really want to see what the problem in health costs is, look at that 3.5% profit margin for insurance companies against pharma companies and hospitals and physicians.

making the insurance companies out to be the bad guys makes for good politics but it is wrong and it is only done so that eventually government is the sole provider of health care in america. That is the ultimate goal and a lot of people know it.

I see it as a means to an end

Gaining at least the illusion control over insurance will put pressure on broader healthcare costs.

To your other point, you really do need to lay off the kool aid. I know hundreds of crazy liberals and not a single one of them wants government to be the sole provider of health care. Not one damn person.

I support single payer, but even that wouldn't eliminate the health industry. There will always be businesses that profit from the misery of others. Health reform will do nothing to stop that. In fact, it may even bifurcate the system into one for rich people and one for everyone else. Sort of like the plastic surgery business. You'll still get what you're able to pay for. The free market will always find a way.

Scaming Corporate Profit at 3.5%? Chillbilly Palin Polar Bear BS

The average profit margin for health insurance companies in america is right at 3.5%.

That is below most other businesses of equal size by a very large amount.*JBradley

BUSH 2 BUll CRAP! That is what the Oil Companies say too! Where did you go to economic school at? " The Lying Corporate Skull and Crossbones Business School of Yale University" Or maybe you attended a Info " GET Rich Now" Semiar by Goldman Sachs at the local Hilton Inn?

I love it, James

How can you tell when a Republican is telling the truth?

HAHA..Even my bride laughed at that one when I clicked on it.

You are a nutty guy ! :)

Good one.


I stumbled onto that accidentally because my code was wrong, and had the momentary sense to recognize how funny it was.

JB sounds like Dave

Where are the righties coming from that are posting here? JB looks like another Dave. I am wondering if "Not Gay" is involved in this somehow.

Think about it, y'all.

tonight at

the Black Political Caucus Kissell's spokesperson reiterated that Kissell will vote NO on the bill in front of a few hundred people.

McIntyre is as full of BS as Kissell

Any congressman who can vote for funding wars outside the budget...as McIntyre has...is being less than honest when he complains about something costing money or increasing the deficit.
I hope their "no" votes are their political death knell.

Stan Bozarth

True enough

Guilty !! :)

Stan is right. Hopefully I did not discourage Hibriten from posting here. I guess it could have been taken like there is a "mean bunch" here.

Not at all, Hibriten !! Sorry if that was the impression I gave.


Bad until you need it

HCR...I guess you'll hate it until you need it. Kinda like lawyers.

I have a question that I hope somebody can answer...Are you born with narcissistic personality disorder or do you develope it as you get grander in you own mind? Just a thought.