Open Thread: Thank the Gods It's Friday

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at PhotobucketWhat a week. Mental health crisis, five million lost emails, troops' tours extended, Vonnegut died, Don freakin' Imus, suicide bomber in the Green Zone, and so on.

On the flip side, there's gay marriage in Connecticut, Rahm Emmanuel telling Dems to stand strong against Bush, Bill Richardson's calling for immediate pullout from Iraq, Guiliani couldn't accurately guess the price of bread and milk, approval for Congress has shot up to 40% since the Dems took charge, Dole looks really vulnerable, Kissell's already generating a lot of excitement, and Richard "finger in the wind" Burr finally came out against the OLF.

How was your week?

Comments

Just another day in Paradise

My week, well it was a week. TGIF!!!!! Tomorrow Dem Convention and I'm running for Treasurer, keep your fingers crossed for me.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Seems Hayes is flip flopping again

In the Fayetteville Observer- Inside Politics section there was mention of emails the paper had received about Robin Hayes stand on the min. wage bill. Hayes office responded with a statement that boiled down to "Hayes voted for the min. wage bill before he voted against it". Flip flop-flip flop- the more things change the more they remain the same.

Screwy...I stand in awe of you

I couldn't possibly find anything to complain about in my week. It's been a dream compared to what others face. I will say that my husband is trying to kill me. It's a new form of homicide. Death by yardwork.

Our house could be listed now, but we have a two week wait for the carpet we ordered. The good news is, I'll be back to blogging full time come Monday. With a little bit of packing here and there we should be good to go if/when the house sells.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
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I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

Eh, I don't agree

I've been to parties like that party (I've been, though I didn't participate). It's like driving slightly over the speed limit, slightly drunk - something bad probably won't happen, but if it does, it's your fault.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

good save

Let me add a few things.

#1- If there was a crime in that house, then every kid in that place was guilty of aiding and abetting
#2- We will never know if there was or was not a crime. They might be cleared of the charges by the AG, but we have no idea what went on in that house.
#3- As I said in another thread, this case deals a serious blow to the credibility of all women who make an accusation like this. Especially if that woman is black and her assailants are white.
#4- Rape and Domestic violence are the two most underreported crimes in this country. Nifong has dealt a serious blow to efforts to make that not be the case anymore.

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

Don't get me wrong

Over the past year, Mike Nifong has done more damage to women than any other person in North Carolina.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

Cooper said "innocent."

And he knows more about the case than anyone. But ALL info. is due to be made public. If any of you want to blame everyone at that party (some who were only there briefly, like at least 2 of the accused) then we should blame every single feminist, black activist, and Democrat for the three protestors outside the lacrosse house holding up a huge "Castrate" sign.

Yeah..?

If you've been to parties like that, maybe Nifong should have prosecuted YOU. Why not? He had the mentally ill dancer just pick any three guys at random.

P.S. to Sam Spencer

How many "parties like that" have you been to?

Thanks, Anglico.

So do you agree with the Southern Dem that anyone who was at that Duke lacrosse party is guilty of aiding and abetting a crime if a crime had been committed? Would you think Sam Spencer would be guilty if there had been a crime at a party he was attending?

I've done a good job staying out of

the Duke case for the most part, and I won't get drawn in now. I trust Cooper, so I'm assuming there's no guilt to be found.

That said, I've known 50 or 60 LAX players over the years, starting 35 years ago at Annapolis. And every one of them has been a complete and total asshole. There are probably some that aren't, but not that I've ever met.

That doesn't mean they're guilty of anything other than being lacrosse players.

Shame on you, Anglico.

Your co-blogger , Southern Dem, is making some pretty serious assertions as to who should be considered guilty in any crime or not. You should comment on that. But, alright, I'll respect your decision to stay out of it. If you've stayed out of the lax case for so long, you're not obliged to get into it now. Thanks, Anglico.

you doubly cant read

I made those comments. Not her.

Second, I said IF there was a crime then they are guilty of aiding and abetting. If there wasnt a crime they are innocent. I said that because we DO NOT KNOW WHAT OCCURRED.

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

We know there was NO crime.

Just wait til the reports are all made public. But let's pretend there was. You are saying that anyone at that party (including the main three) would be guilty of aiding and abetting?

Thanks for your understanding

The neat thing about BlueNC is that few of us really know each other - and none of us are in lock-step on anything. Sometimes I dive into fights with both feet. Sometimes I sit on the sidelines. And sometimes I don't even know what people are writing about. There's so much to keep up with - and it's really easy to get sucked into black holes of issues without really making a difference.

Regarding Duke, I've felt all along that too many people (including me briefly) have dived in and fanned the flames. The case actually caused me to refocus on things where I think an impact can be had: getting rid of Jim Black, derailing the John Locke Foundation, distracting Dole and Burr, helping get Larry Kissell elected, pushing legislation in Raleigh. I usually save my pure, unadulterated ranting for other blogs - though sometimes that does happen here too.

Well, as vindicated Reade Seligmann said..

"If they (corrupt)police could railroad us it's frightening to think what they could do to people with no access to good legal resources.." (semi-accurately quoting there). Seligmann is the guy who had homophobe Victoria Peterson bring the homophobic New Black Panthers to Durham to scream death threats at him (which makes me wonder why Durham gay activists were so silly as to be on THAT side). So maybe some good will come out of the mess, with changing laws (especially for the poor) and the like, if Durham's public admits they learned a lesson and reflects on how they acted.(But, okay friend, I won't drag you into this).

Shame on you.

Go piss in someone else's living room.
One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

From all the reports on that party I've read

It's no worse than UNC parties on Oct. 31 ... though I've never been a party to (or been at a party with) a woman hired as an "entertainer."

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

So...

..what did you mean by "those kinds of parties.." Have you been to "those kind" or not?

A crazy kind of party off-campus

where guys were getting fresh? Yeah. And if a party gets out of control and you abide it, you might not be legally culpable, but you are morally. I try to do the right thing.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

you must be

one of those religious Democrats Obama doesnt think are real.

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

So...Sam Spencer..

..you think it would be acceptable, if a crime was committed at any of those parties you were at, that you should have been prosecuted for aiding and abetting, as does the Southern Dem? (Even IF, as with Duke case defendents, you had left the house before the alleged crime?)

this is my last post

I will not be responding to you again.

I am not SD. Do you see the difference?

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

I never said that ...

But if you contribute to a criminal atmosphere and do nothing to prevent a crime in progress, then as I said you are acting amorally.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

..but Sam..

You're getting very vague, now. One poster here thinks, if there was a crime there, you'd be guilty of aiding and abetting. The point I'm getting at is that, you yourself have been to "those parties". But you seem to somehow blame others (the Duke 3) who did the very same thing.

Go back and read my comments

I've never encouraged stripping or binge drinking at one of these parties. Don't forget, it was a "lacrosse team" party. It was their party. It was the residence of two of the team's captains. I've never held one of these parties.

I'm talking about morality, even though there is some legal responsibility for people who hold parties that go wrong at their residences.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

but..

But you said you've been at parties where guys got "fresh". Even though you didn't encourage it, by your logic, you are to blame for that, and for every incident at a party you attended. You are aiding and abetting. Is that it? That's fair, if that's your outlook on things (religious or otherwise) and would explain why you disagree when Cooper said "innocent."

I'm not to blame for it because I did something about it

I'm sorry if you're not reading my subtext.

And on the Duke kids, they're not guilty, but since their party started this whole mess they're not innocent. The point is that nobody's innocent in this thing.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

Nobody's "innocent"?

But at least two of the accused didn't hire strippers, didn't throw the party, and didn't stay at the house. You think they are still "not innocent" of something? I know you're not saying they're guilty of rape, but...you disagree with Cooper that they're "innocent"? Is this a religious issue?

Welcome Joey...

Always nice to see a new "face" here at BlueNC.
SE NC Dems

Stan Bozarth

Thanks, Stan.

I do appreciate your greeting. Though I already feel slightly like I've stepped into barbarian land here....with some of the non-logic I see from the anti-Duke crowd.

im sorry

But no matter what Cooper says I will never have any respect for a bunch of degenerate racists who committed crime after crime after crime without repercussions. These werent pillars of the community.

These were a bunch of college kids who had criminal records for assault. Who had been busted countless times for underage drinking. Who were disgustingly racist, and proud of it.

Every good word said about them is embarrasing. Were they treated horribly by Nifong? Absolutely. Should he be disbarred? Probably. Are these "good boys who got screwed"? Hell No.

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Liddy 44 Brad 33

"Keep the Faith"

okay

"Good boys" who got screwed is a matter of opinion. I don't think they are angels or devils. But Durham County , NC, has been revealed to have it's share of devils. And so many don't have the basic moral integrity to say "sorry, we screwed up." That's why, in what we hope is still the civilized U.S., we have those venues called lawsuits.

We're all for seeing Nifong sued

into poverty. Now every woman with legit claims is going to have a tougher row to hoe, and that's not right.

I always wanted to be the avenging cowboy hero—that lone voice in the wilderness, fighting corruption and evil wherever I found it, and standing for freedom, truth and justice. - Bill Hicks

Not just Nifong's fault.

Every woman with legit claims will be fine. That's why we have DNA evidence (or no DNA evidence). The Durham County public was dumb enough to elect Nifong even after the first DNA tests came back in April showing she wasn't raped (he got 95 percent of the black vote). But Nifong is only the first in a long line who, I suspect, is going to be sued. Including Durham County.

whoa

Every woman with legit claims will be fine.

Many, many women with legit claims never, ever come forward because of the frickin' circus they have to face without the nightmare the woman involved in this case had to go through.

Many, many women with legit claims are intimidated as hell by a system that is as dehumanizing as rape itself.

Many, many women with legit claims will go through the system, see the end of a trial, and never, ever be fine again. Ever.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

okay

Okay, I won't argue against that. The only thing I'm saying is that I myself would never doubt a woman's claim of rape just because the Duke one was a false allegation. Every case is different, and I'd approach it that way.

Then stop

Stop making broad generalizations. Stop acting as if every case is black and white - both racially and philosophically. The Duke Lacrosse Rape Fiasco is a tragedy for everyone involved, including those of us subjected to hearing about it over and over again.

I believe that Roy Cooper is a good attorney general, and if there had been a case to be made with the detritus Nifong left, he would have made it. He couldn't. Even the people who were there that night will have different memories of what happened. Now it's time for healing; it's time for the parties involved to decide what action to take next.

Consistant bickering on a blogsite over who "hates Duke" is neither productive nor a positive influence for anyone's case. It might make you feel better, but seriously - that's what MySpace is for, man. Blow off steam there.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Icloud :

Where did I make "broad generalizations"?

Here is one example

I will bold the broad generalization parts.

Seligmann is the guy who had homophobe Victoria Peterson bring the homophobic New Black Panthers to Durham to scream death threats at him (which makes me wonder why Durham gay activists were so silly as to be on THAT side). So maybe some good will come out of the mess, with changing laws (especially for the poor) and the like, if Durham's public admits they learned a lesson and reflects on how they acted.(But, okay friend, I won't drag you into this).

In both of those highlighted instances, you made generalizations about groups of people, the individual members of which you could not possibly know. Go on, it's Friday night. Aren't you frat boys supposed to be out drinking beer or something?

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Those are poor examples of

Those are poor examples of my "generalizations." It's like my saying "one and one equals two" and you shouting "You're making a generalization!" I don't know any Third Reich members either, but I'd call them anti-Jewish. Is that a generalization? (Face it, guy. Your Durham screwed up royally).

:)

  1. I'm not a guy

  2. Assuming that all of the public of Durham screwed up because they all believed the same thing is making a very broad generalization

  3. Assuming that every member of the New Black Panthers are homophobic is a very broad generalization

  4. It's not "my Durham"

  5. "Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

on Durham

I'll give you the one on Durham supporting Nifong. Actually, most of Durham voted for other candidates, but it wasn't enough because the vote was split.

P.S. to Icloud.

I didn't mean to get into discussing this case at such length. I just made the statement that I considered "Innocent" the high point of the week, and I was immediately confronted with arguments that I found...frankly..illogical. So I was kind of stuck in continuing.

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